PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

Type of blood tests to get (NOTE: GET TESTED BETWEEN 7AM-9AM, when Testosterone levels are HIGHEST in the morning):

Labs where you can get these tests done:
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1240

List of bloodtests broken down by disorder type:
http://www.pituitary.org/library/disord ... ge_id=1442

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Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Androstenedione
Androstenediol
DHT (not accurate compared to Adiol-G)
3alpha-diol G (Androstanediol glucuronide-- "Adiol-G" for short): metabolite of DHT, measures 5AR-II activity
Androsterone glucuronide (another metabolite of DHT that measures 5AR activity)
Estradiol (E2)
Estrone (E1)
Total Estrogens
LH
FSH
DHEA-s
Cortisol (24-hour urine sample)
Cortisone
Corticosterone
Aldosterone
Deoxycorticosterone
SHBG
Prolactin
Progesterone
Pregnenolone
17-OH Progesterone
17-OH Pregnenolone
Albumin
ACTH
PSA
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
IGF-1
IGF-BP3
CBC or FBC (Complete Blood Count/Full Blood Count)
LFT (Liver Function Tests - AST, ALT, GGT, Bilirubin, etc.)
Androgen/Estrogen ratio
Testosterone/DHT ratio
17-ketosteroids (24-hr urine sample) -- http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp ... 014100.htm


5AR activity testing -- READ HERE:
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=761

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Alphabetical Listing Of Blood Tests and recommended ranges from the Life Extension Foundation:

http://www.lef.org/protocols/appendix/b ... ing_01.htm

Compare your blood test results to these.

You might want to add that according to hypo-is-here, all sex hormones need to be tested between 9 am and 11 am.

You would want Free T3 and Free T4 as opposed to T3 and T4 as the free/active thyroid hormones are more important. A random Cortisol test is not that useful so it is best to get a 24 urinary test if possible.

I'm having a huge problem getting my doctor to order all these tests. He thinks that some of them are a waste of time and that Propecia doesn't even touch them, plus I've already been to 2 other doctors who also don't think it's necessary to do all of them and I'm running out of options. I think others might also have/will run into this problem or the price of all these tests might be too much for those without adequate insurance. Could someone narrow this list down to the essential tests that should be taken (at least as a first step)?

Thanks!

Recommended "short" list:

Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Androstenedione
DHT
3alpha-diol G (Androstenediol glucuronide -- ("Adiol-G" for short): metabolite of DHT, measures 5AR-II activity
Estradiol (E2)
LH
FSH
SHBG
Prolactin
TSH

... and hopefully LFT and CBC for overall health picture.

If you can pay for them yourself, that may be the only way to get everything you need... or at least have them test the above and pay for the rest yourself.

Some may be interested in this so I'm posting it. These are the tests that Dr. Shippen requested for me before my first visit with him. Keep in mind that he asked about my symptoms beforehand so that may have influenced the tests he ordered.

Fasting bloodtest taken in the AM:

Alpha MSH (Melanocyte Stimulating Hormone) Assay
Cortisol
DHEAS, serum
FSH/LH
Estradiol
Testosterone, total
Dihydrotestosterone (DHT)
SHBG - Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
Insulin-like Growth Factor, IGF-1
Prolactin
Vitamin-D-total

24 hour urine panel from Rhein labs http://www.rheinlabs.com/hp.html:

Everything below except the stuff under "Also Available:".

Admin - You repeatedly state to get blood work done through numerous posts. However I have not read in any post that there is a common hormone problem associated with this condition. Is there a common hormone problem we should be looking for? I would consider trying to get all of these test and blood work done if I knew what I was looking for.

Could you specify every test's reasons? What does TSH do in my body, for example?

Read FAQ at top of site, it outlines the common problem very clearly.

Hypogonadal levels of Total & Free Testosterone, LH and FSH, either low or extremely high DHT... often elevated Estradiol, TSH or Prolactin, and other imbalances such as increased Progesterone and issues with other hormones listed. The problem is we don't know every single hormone the drug affects by inhibiting 5AR, so it is important to get as big a picture as possible.



The links are right in the FIRST POST of this thread. Please read!

http://www.lef.org/protocols/appendix/b ... ing_01.htm

Is urine a better way to find out wht's goin on instead of serum at 9am etc, Shippen is on youtube saying he is coming around to doing urine samples now.

this should be one of the best labs there are..
http://www.metametrix.com/content/Home
for test urine

Hey,

Do you have any resources on complete blood count (CBC)?

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blanket

Yes, it's called Google. Try it sometime.

Ok so I've been thinking now we're getting to a point where we have a few theories as to the problem we experience. So I thought I would put a list of tests that we should have done in lab setting:

Ones we can't easily do without:

Adiol 17-G
Adiol 3-G
11b-OH-Etiocholanolone
androsterone/etiocholanolone
11ß-hydroxy androsterone/11ß-hydroxy etiocholanolone
5-tetrahydrocorticosterone (THB)/THB
5-THF/THF
Genital Skin Fibroblast testing
Genetic test for AR gene mutation
Genetic test for 5AR2 mutation
6b-hydroxy-5a-dihydrotestosterone
6beta-hydroxy testosterone
7α-hydroxytestosterone
Ratio of hydroxy-testosterone to normal testosterone
4-androstene,16,17β-diol-3-one (16-OH-testosterone)
AR gene CAG and GGC repeats

Determine if 17B-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase pathway is working - testosterone to Δ4-androstenedione ratio

Determine if 3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency

Genome wide methylation analysis - concentrating on AR receptor function and CYP.. enzymes in liver. - see studies in viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3901&start=120 for which areas.

The usual:

Total testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Free Testosterone
DHT
FSH
LH
SHBG
Free t3
Free t4
TSH
DHEAs
Androstendione
Estradiol
24 hour cortisol
Progesterone
Prolactin
Vitamin D
Zinc
IGF-1
IGF-BP3
CRP
ESR

This should cover everything. Any other suggestions?

The link above provided by joshcurtz for a 24 hour urine profile from rein labs http://www.rheinlabs.com/hp.html seems to cover quite a few of those metabolites. MIght be a good place to start, unfortunately there are no prices on the website. I wonder if they would be able to do a special request for the other metabolites.

reverse t3 and saliva cortisol test should be on here as well. i just got my reverse t3 and free t3 done and found out i have too much reverse t3 in my body. its what JN did to recover himself as well.

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those who say it can not be done should not interrupt the people doing it

reverse T3 absolutely should be in there.

Reverse T4?

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My story: http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3923
My bloodwork: http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5107

3*

Yes

Please add:

Cortisol binding globulin / transcortin
Durinal cortisol salivary profile
RT3
Daily temperatures.
Ige


CBG and Silivary cortisol are very important and If i got them years ago I would have saved a lot of time messing around with things.

Thanks